Hi Drahnian. It seems that they are all relocated enemies from various ex-areas after the destruction of Bionis, with just a higher level. So to earn time, I will make a script and add a second infobox and FC sentence type to all the existing pages (first probably with WiseBot). What do you think?
All except Somnivore Lexos and for some reason Watch Chilkin (this page is an incorrect redirect?) have the same names, however I assume alongside the level differences they have stat / drop differences (the latter obviously). I think having one page is optimal however ran into a couple of enemies (notably Baby Armu, Aqua Nebula and Arachno Queen) which are split across location pages (first two) and a boss (third) whilst being a minor enemy in FC. There are also several other arachno (Director Arachno and Worker Arachno) split between story/normal pages currently. By precedent we should make new pages for all Shoulder enemies, although I'd prefer we combine the existing split pages so that each named species has 1 page.
(Chelta Caterpile is an XC2 split page which I made due to the two enemies using different models. I'd be inclined to maintain that as it looks like a game error rather than intentionally similar enemies).
Hi Drahnian. Do you agree with those changes made on Weapons (XC1) (sub)pages by User:Topazlight? Particularly the reintegration of Unused Weapons in the tables, while, if I remember well, we decided to separate unused content from in-game content, for clear readability by highlighting logically in-game content since usual gameplay (what everyone do) and treating unused content more as "notes" or "trivia" info since accessible only from hacked game... Also do you agree with its correction Staffs > Staves? I have seen in dictionary that both are correct, but maybe British English (the English version of XC1) uses preferentially "Staves" for the definition of "sticks".
Staves is as you say more commonly used to denote sticks than plural staff (and also is less commonly used than "staffs"). It may be regional preference within the UK (also worth noting our category & all pages that use "staffs"; a hassle, although I'm sure possible, to change).
Imo if folk who haven't seen the initial forum discussion feel that unused weapons should be on there then they're okay to stay, but I'd prefer them in a separate table below the regular weapons to maintain readability, as you say.
Also, I think the weapon tabs should be by weapon name rather than character name, to avoid the Fiora spoilers currently on the page.
I have asked Topazlight directly; if there's a more concrete reason that we just don't know then it's easily sorted.
Sounds wise given that there's only a few! That'll also sort the inconsistent labelling of stars and crosses for unused/mechon damaging weapons.
Oh, my favourite thread again... You've a sharp memory to recall this discussion in the middle of all that! Fair discussion... I note that Armour Recognition uses "Machina"; could one or the other be changed for consistency? Spoiler avoidance wasn't considered an issue before but now that there's so many new players I think we should be more stringent, especially on comparison pages like those.
Hello Drahnian. Just saw how you placed the appearance section on the Amethyst Chip page. You also moved stuff outside the XC2/TTGC tabs, was that intentional or a mistake while editing the trove location? Given that both XC2 and TTGC have their separate sources in terms of both enemy drops, treasure troves and quests, and there are source types that exist in one but not the other, wouldn't it make more sense to keep them separated? Just asking because of that script I've been working on, need to make sure I got the proper template before I start using it.
F yes that is a mistake (look through page history to see me making a series of errors like a CLOWN), they should definitely be under the respective game headings. The overall order I've been using is as I described before re infoboxes; I changed Amethyst Chip for consistency with the others. How's your script coming along? Should I stop manually filling out sources (will certainly save me time) or have you a while yet?
I've just about finished it. I'm trying to make it so that I can reuse it for all the other item types too, if necessary. You can leave the sources to me. Been taking inspiration on the edits you've made in the past with sources, so in theory it should hold up nicely with the template you've already been using so far.
It generates all the data for (in order, split by game): Shops (including price), Dropped By, Treasure Troves, Quest Rewards, Merc Mission Rewards, and the Challenge Battle Mode drop table. All alphabetically sorted by name. Sounds good?
It took me a while to get it to recognize and properly mark which enemies are SE, QEE or S automatically. Though, I'm currently including bosses on SE, and mostly dismissing Summons as normal enemies, I wonder if I should change that?
Incredible! Thank you very much; item sources have always been a pain..!
I've been putting all but Challenge Battles before Dropped by, but haven't massive preference (especially as only the few pages I've done exist so not much to change if we do) - I do think Dropped by / Challenge Battle both being tables lends them toward being grouped for neatness, but if you reckon otherwise them go for it. Alphabetical is always perfect :)
I'd keep bosses in story exclusive (for the purposes of drops they are identical - only fought once!) although B would be fine. Summons are a bit awkward - I'd be tempted to put "summoned [UM name] in the location field given that they won't appear on map otherwise, although by that logic QEEs should list which quest they appear during, which I think would get messy. Could just * and add an abbreviation list under the table (which would be useful either way!). Might be worth asking on a forum if neither of those seem ideal.
I agree on the fact that grouping the tables together is far more visually pleasing. I'll go with that then! Shops, Treasure Troves, Quest Rewards, Merc Mission Rewards, Dropped by, Challenge Battle Mode.
Just realized that the bosses are a non-issue, turns out no bosses in the game drop any items besides gold and cores, so they'll never show up in these tables. And regarding the trouble with these pesky abreviations/acronyms... how about doing something like this: Iron Chip? A "Spawn" column might be far clearer for people new to the wiki and even provides a bit more information than before, at a glance at least. For more in-depth information, that should be the role of the individual enemy pages, inserting too much information on a list just makes things get unnecessarily messy.
So far I'm dealing with infoboxes manually, since I'm still pretty confused on the selection criteria for the best sources, seems mostly based on intuition as far as you described it on the past. I could automate it given a rigorous ruleset for the selection, but right now I'm just filling the sell price part of it.
Ok! May well be faster to do them manually (especially once sources are on the page itself). I'd say you could definitely put shops, quest / merc rewards in there except that the DLC ones are less useful and I assume they'd be difficult to sort? (If easy, shops & non-DLC quest/merc rewards would be good and then enemies etc can easily be added later)
Sounds wise! Will it not be easier to change the category if the names change than trawl through the images to find all instances released pre-localisation, though? (I'd rather we don't have what we have with XCX/XC2 images, which is lots only categorised under screenshots/art but no character/location tags)
You are opening my eyes to this... I think it varies by video - I notice there are a bunch of XC1 H2H clips, which would be good on their respective pages, however given that they are just youtube links I'm not certain of the merit of that over just linking to the youtube page itself. Guides on how to get to areas I'd say the same of.
Official videos, eg trailers and maybe those WEIRD clips of Fiora as an actress for a TV ad, want to be on relevent pages.
Duplicate videos, or videos in Japanese that we already have in English, want to be in category "candidates for deletion". Music videos without associated pages and general gameplay clips can go here too.
I'm not sure what to do about fan-made clips; I'd say they should be deleted if they are unused anywhere. We have quite a lot of userspace/forum images that are unused that I'm clearing out currently and imo these are the same.
Something you may want to do is ask WA his opinion - he's a bit more stringent than I am and may reckon they can mostly be deleted, which I wouldn't be opposed to.
Go ahead and put any you think have no worth in Candidates for Deletion, though, as they'll be checked by one of us specifically before deletion.
Hi Drahnian. I think we should not add a Gallery for XC2 on the Human page, because this is a dedicated page (for now) for a defined race of XCX, knowing all other related pages like Human-Made Skell, etc. it is a bit confusing... I also think that the XC2 section on the page should not be kept, but for now, it is just a mention, so it is less problematic than the Gallery. It is still an open discussion the "Human" term consideration about several races of XC2 because, contrary to XCX, it is not an effective race in-game, nor anything else well defined, just a mention in the end of the game. If there is later an agreement to build something for a "Human" term consideration for XC2, we may do something depending on proposals and a community decision, probably a section on the plot page or a dedicated page for XC2, or any suitable idea, a discussion amongst the community may be useful. What do you think?
Hi WA! Tragically XC2 describes the group of human-like subraces collectively as humans multiple times (96, according to this script), throughout the entire game (and TTGC). Here's one example:
Jin: Yes. You're right.
As long as Blades and humans are bonded to each other...
As for XCX vs XC2 page splitting, I'm of the opinion that shared pages make navigation easier, and we haven't split Nopon or enemy species pages by game. Am willing to hear arguments against this, but I do think the script makes the term "human" unambiguously correct in this case.
Hum, a good point, I did not pay enough attention it was so frequently used, but the French version rather used the common noun "human", so more generic term, rather than a defined race with a proper noun "Human" (with upper-case) like in XCX, and your citation of Jin show a common noun, anyway I should take a deeper look at the usage in XCX, if only proper noun for defined race, or also the common noun as a generic term... Let's keep the page as such for now.
About Nopon, in fact, we had initially split them, we had a Nopon (X) page, but there was then a decision of merging them. It remains a good example of course for your explanation.
This "human" term issue reminds me the one from the Zelda series (on Zeldapedia, there was a discussion with the community), where you have two usages, one usage for a defined race, Human, race of people with round ears, and one usage for the group of human-like races, so Human plus Sheikah, plus Gerudo, etc. in contrast of Goron or Zora... So here it seems to me that in XCX it is the first usage, and in XC2 the second one. I should really take a look at this.
Oh, aye, it is certainly the common noun rather than the proper - is that not the case in X?
I doooo agree with you on the latter, although I'd imagine the translaters would be more careful about it if they actually wanted a separation as they did in XC1 with Homs... Would it be possible to see what word is used in the original Japanese text?
Would you like to split the Human page to Human (XCX) and Human (XB2)? I'm not opposed to it - my point was only that XC2 uses "human" terminology, not that they're the same humans necessarily. I think in the ending of XC2 the human faction are different to the humans in XCX (different war going on) and what with all the different sub-races / story in XC2 it would actually merit two pages where Nopon may not (as Nopon as a species haven't that much different history / lore / etc between games). ?
I do not think everyone will agree with a split, in particular considering the Nopon (XCX) page that has been merged with the Nopon initial page. There is still a problem, contrary to XCX, in XC2 the term "human" is only used once or twice, and as a generic term (no uppercase, Human), it is not a well defined term of the game, so it should not be a page for it, but it can appear on the XC2 (plot) or Nation page instead. I have not a clear solution yet, but I still feel the XC2 part on this page problematic...
(could you give me an example of the difference between the words in French? /check if any difference exists in Japanese, if easily done?)
I feel like humans in XC2 are defined well enough to encompass all of the main nationalities bar Nopon (group of humanoid subraces living on Alrest, derived from Klaus' humanity), but that is obviously a different use of the word human to XCX (group of humans from Earth, not evolved into sub-races, living on Mira) which currently have no canonical connection to one another. I feel this merits two pages similarly to Telethia (XC1) / Telethia (XCX).
I think you are right. I do not know why I retain "Human" with uppercase in XCX when it is used to qualify the race regarding Nopon, Prone, Definian, Manon, Wrothian, Orphean, etc. And as you show, humans in XC2 seems indeed defined well enough. I do not remember well, but in French in general, the noun of a civilisation, "race", nation, etc. uppercase for the noun, lowercase for the adjective. After viewing the Nopon (XCX) page history coupling with this thread, I think we can leave those pages as they are for now.
Not sure if you noticed but I've been busy adding photos of the XC1 party members' Talent Arts to the 'In battle' sections of their articles. Had to replace Reyn's with a more HD one I found on Spriters' Resource, but it was worth it. What do you think? Also, are there any uncategorized articles left?
Hi! I think they look very good (In Battle section is more appropriate than main gallery indeed!) - thanks for thinking of that!
I believe we're all good on uncategorized articles (although if you want a horror task, going through the "XC2 Screenshots" category and recategorizing everything correctly does need doing :o ). If you ever want to check that - and other cool data stuff - you can use Special:SpecialPages.
Haha, that one's more contentious. I personally hate the quote sections but seem to be in the minority (we've had several forum discussions, if I recall!) so... if you like? I'd say only add quotes that show real meaning and elaborate on the character rather than just quoting important scenes (also avoid quotes like "aaaaah!" Etc that are meaningless without context). A lot of characters have spevific quote pages linked to in that section, too, which you're welcome to go WILD on.
Since I'm still working on adding enemy stats to a whole lot of pages, I probably won't get to this for a while but I could also take a break from enemy stats and do this as well. Anyways, I see that you've added some pictures to the wiki. I want to also add some pictures to the wiki for the pages that need an image but I don't know where to look to see what images currently exist. Is there a location on this wiki that I could look at to see all the images that currently exist? I don't want to take a screenshot in my game and post it to the wiki, only to then find out that the image that I've taken (like an image of an enemy) already exists on here.
Hello BoC! You have no idea how long I've waited for someone to ask that!!
Can confirm that it is a nice change of pace, adding screenshots. Looking at pages that exist is... a lot (in theory all should be well categorised but. they are not.) - feel free to look through the total 15,000 images or the completely undifferentiated category:XC2 Screenshots but I think of more use to you would be Category:XC2 Pages needing an infobox image for enemies (what other images would you intend to upload? NPCs we have very few screenshots of but also no category currently).
When you do upload images, please be sure to categorise them appropriately to avoid the very mess they're in just now. "XC2 Screenshots" alone is not good, but "XC2 Battle Screenshots" + "XC2 [enemy species]" is good. Basically it allows an image to be found via category at a later stage.
I've got ~100 images currently which are challenge and quest exclusive enemies to upload; now that I know you're thinking of getting on that I'll try and get them up asap so that it's clear what we still need. If you wind up taking an image which is better than what's on a page currently, you're welcome to replace it / stick one in the gallery section / etc. Let me know if you have any trouble, too; admins can rename/replace/etc files if something goes wrong. This is actually great timing as I've no access to XC2 from now to end of January; if we could empty the category of enemies then we could repurpose it for NPC pages needing screenshots!
Sounds good. There are some enemies I will not be able to get a screenshot of (like some of the quest exclusive enemies since I've already completed several quests) but I will try my best to get a screenshot of all the other enemies I can easily find or make respond (like the UMs) and maybe any quest exclusive enemies from quests I haven't completed yet.
I'm sure you can see the images that I've uploaded earlier today. Do you approve of how the images look? I had cropped all of the images so they only show the enemy. I saw some of the images you took and uploaded and they all include the enemy bar that says their name and health. Would you prefer I do that too or does it not matter? The images I took are of quest-exclusive enemies so I can't retake the images (and I can't undo the cropping of the images I have) so someone else would have to retake the images if the cropping is not ideal.
It is fine, nice work! For infoboxes, portraits are always much better than full in-game screenshots. For enemies infoboxes, the best in time is an image of the enemy only (like artwork, so no level, frame, health, field behind...) as you can see for XC1 and XCX (resp. example Ether Igna or Adamant Suid). So for now, what you do and add is much better than full screenshots, because more suitable for infoboxes.
While I can't provide artwork with no background, I can continue to provide the images I have previously uploaded already (continuing to crop them to only include the enemy in focus). I'm currently working on completing quests and taking screenshots of the quest-exclusive enemies as they are harder to get an image of (as in, you only encounter them once so you only have one chance to fight them). If you have any suggestions of what I should do to my screenshots before uploading them (like removing the health bar from the image, keeping it in the image, etc.), just let me know and I'll make sure it's done.
Frankly for XC1 and XCX that was very easy as we just took images from a secondary source (JCE and enemy index), which we cant do for XC2. As WA says, images with less distractions are good - although, by personal preference, I'd say that images with relevant information (eg an obvious location, weather effects etc) are better to contain that than just the enemy. I like having the enemy name tag present as that makes it verifiable which enemy youve got (and looks pretty neat) but theres no specific way of doing things.
Screenshots with relevant information are interesting for sure but in the article body or the gallery section, not in IB because the purpose of an IB is to fastly but significantly portray and provide information, name, stats, location, etc. so such a wide and detailed screenshot somewhat redundant with the IB content and really not suitable for an IB (portraying).
So are the ones that I have posted (the cropped images portraying only the enemy in focus) would be ideal for you as an IB image? If so, I have no problem continuing to crop the images to only show the enemy in focus.
For me yes, I wrote it in my first post above. But Drahnian does not really agree, so more answers are required, that is why it is better to ask such a thing for the wiki to the community by posting in the wiki forum if necessary.
Sounds good. So far, I've got around 8 screenshots of NPCs. I've still got about 22 more quests to complete before I upload all of the images I have. At the moment, I have around 45 screenshots (8 NPC and the rest enemies) and I'll have more once I complete the other 22 quests. I want to upload all of the images in one fell swoop so I only have to take my microSD card out of my switch once. Soon, I'll have a cruise ship load of screenshots being uploaded (8 at a time of course since I can only bulk add 8 at a time), then I'll have a cruise ship load of pages to edit the images into (and I'll be posting stats while I'm at it).
I've already included the enemy stats for several enemies (the ones with one version of them) but there are some enemies who has 2 versions, a regular version and a challenge mode version. Due to the two, very distinct (in terms of stats) versions, I'm choosing not to enter their stats because I don't know which stats to put in, their regular stats or their challenge battle stats. I got the stats, I just don't know which one to put in. Got any suggestions?
Ah, incredible! Yes - both sets of stats should be on the page in different infoboxes (see Cloud Sea King Ken). I wasn't aware that the stats were different (in hindsight, silly); if I had been I'd have made separate infoboxes in the pages I have edited!
Thank you for the suggestion! I'll be sure to make those edits when I get back to them (more like, when I find them again since I didn't remember which ones I saw). I was going through the enemies from the challenge battles (as I am trying to complete the pages a bit more by adding the enemies that will be faced in the challenge) and some of them had two variations. I'll be sure to re-visit the ones with two versions and make the appropriate edits.
The Ghost Elmas have less health and less of some other stats than Elma (Redux). Elma in Redux has 34.9m health while the ghost elmas have 4.6m health. Their other stats are lower as well except their block rate which is the same (at 5%).
There also appears to be another Ghost Elma at level 60 (with lower stats than the 65) but I don't know where that one is goes to yet.
Would you like me to create a page for Ghost Elma? On the page, I can include their stats from both challenge battles (in two different info boxes, of course). I'm not at my computer at the moment but I can do it once I get back.
When I try to create the page and name it "Ghost Elma", it says it already exists (but it takes me to Elma's page). Would you rather have me label the page as "Ghost Elma (XC2)", "Ghost Elma (Challenge Mode)" or "Ghost Elma (Challenge Battle Mode)"?
Also, I want to create her Arts table but the only thing I'm missing is the number of hits (that's also true for every single enemy too). Is it ok if I create the Arts table and put a "?" under the hits column?
I was unable to name the page "Ghost Elma" so instead, I've named it "Ghost Elma (Challenge Battle)". I've now published the Ghost Elma page. Their enraged and arts are the same from Elma, the only difference is their stats.
That's alright; I assume a redirect was put in due to Ghost Elmas having the same appearance/level as regular Elma so being assumed to be the same. Ghost Elma (Challenge Battle) is nice and unambiguous imo. It's always okay to stick ?s in mostly complete tables, although from the page it looks like you figured hits out?
With Ghost Elma, I was able to figure out the hits because their entire arts table is identical to Elma's arts table. That's why I was able to get the hits. Without that, there's no other way I would be able to figure out the hits since my source doesn't list what the hits and range are.