Hi Gilgameshkun. I have just seen your edits on Human page and each XC2 race page. I follow only once the plot in the French version, but I did not understand things as such (as you edited). Do you have solid sources or in-game references?
For now I do not change anything except just typos fixed and "Humans" categories removed from the each XC2 race category plus Lora page (a XCX category).
EDIT: I have just seen and read your comment on the Human page:
"After reexamining XC2's script and dialogue, it's clear that the Ardainians, Gormotti, Indolese, Leftherians, Tantalese, Tornans, Urayans, etc., are all considered humans, as the word "human" and "humankind" is mentioned periodically in reference to them all. Even some of the groups that have fantasy race features, like the Gormotti with their cat ears, are regarded as human. I suppose it makes sense—just because no one looks like that in real life doesn't mean that people in-story automatically regard them as non-human. "
But this looks like an interpretation and your changes afterwards extrapolations, how can you affirm the info in the Human section added for XC2 and that Ardainian, Urayan, etc. are "an ethnic group of humans"? This is really not as clear (to me) as you pretend.
This discussion is important and your changes rather major, I think that you should have proposed it before proceeding all this change, because it is not clear for everyone, also even though you were eventually right, it would implies new more suitable changes. Thank you for your understanding about that, and of course thank you for your very nice work and contribution on English dub pronunciations.
All right, understandable. Jin and Malos say at least twice that they want to destroy humankind. And after Nia finally reveals she's a Blade and next meets Malos, Malos comments how Nia stopped pretending to be human (that is, pretending to be Gormotti). As for the humans being the second most numerous species after Nopon, I think that's minor dialogue earlier in the game—I'd have to replay as New Game Plus to find it again. But the word "human" is indeed thrown around several times.
I did find some interesting (though questionable) evidence against the human classification of these peoples. When Klaus explains how he recreated life, the cutscene eventually goes to an evolutionary tree, which shows some interesting relations, namely:
Ardainians are more closely related to Gogols than to Gormotti.
The Indolines are more closely related to Sauros (yes, Sauros) than to Ardainians and Gormotti. In fact, among the organisms the Ardainians and Gormotti are more closely related to than Indoline include: Ellooks, Kapibas, Garaffas, Pippitos, Armus, Griffoxes, etc.
Of course, the accuracy of this tree is probably not the best, especially considering how some organisms appear multiple times (what do you expect from an evolutionary tree developed by a game company?), but if we do take it seriously, it looks more like convergent evolution than a monophyletic group.
I can't access the game right now, but I'm sure the different localizations have different views on this. Once I analyze the ingame texts, I will post it here.
However, "ethnic group" is my wording. I seldom hear the word "race" in this game, and I'd rather not use the term unnecessarily because of the word's more loaded connotations in the English language. "Ethnic group" or "ethnicity" just tends to be more neutral-sounding, if that makes sense, but ultimately I can leave that up to consensus. The English dialogue also never describes the different peoples as different races or species, but just as countries, people, etc., and collectively as humankind.
This is seriously one of those games that needs to be transcribed and put online for reference. Otherwise people will just end up debating and questioning references they either can't remember seeing or can't remember for an absolute certainty. The main plot cut scenes in English are all already on YouTube (BeardBear's account), and that helps. But there's still so much more—minor plot cut scenes (especially Blade sidestories), Heart-to-Hearts, and NPC dialogue, that ought to be covered.
LightBender360 : I must admit...I haven't finished XC2 yet. I'm in chapter 9 (I already know a few spoilers, including Klaus), and my Switch's left Joy-Con is currently shipped off to Nintendo to be repaired.
I probably wouldn't be editing as much as I do now if I could still play my Switch. But the Joy-Con just...kept malfunctioning. Randomly registering as moving left. Unable to keep playing the game for now, editing here has kept me otherwise occupied.
But since "human" is still used repeatedly in the English dialogue, perhaps it's not a monophyletic distinction, but just how Alrest society has long since characterized itself as a whole, since they form an intertwined network of civilizations just like old humans did. It had not occurred to me that they could be so paraphyletic.
As CeriusEcstatic said. But perhaps it should be noted they are not biologically identical to original Earth humans.
This actually reminds me of scientists trying to bring woolly mammoths back to life. They don't just resurrect the original mammoths just as they genetically were, but introduce some recovered mammoth DNA into the genomes of living elephants until their descendants are mammoth-like enough. You can still call them mammoths, but you can't call them the same species, as the original is gone.
Thank you Gilgameshkun for your answers. In XCX, the term "Human" is precisely used for the Human people from Earth, a xeno-race... I think in XC2, if used, the term "human" should be more generic (all the human-like), a bit like for Homs in XC1. LB anyway made an important point. So for now, I am going to undo all the changes, that are anyway archived in the pages' histories.
Hi Gilgameshkun. You have added dialogue quotes to some XCX Heart-to-Heart pages, but the text format you are using is not suitable. In edition mode, the text looks too messy. It is better to use this format and to keep the previous format of this example (with the ":"). Thank you.
Actually, I was thinking about legibility when I edited those pages. The Heart-to-Heart pages with the ":" indentations are not as readable on mobile browsers, because mobile Wikia completely ignores those indentations. Better to use "*" bullets which still render and indent on mobile.
Back. I just added all the text for Dreamweavers. I have to keep using bullet indents because it's the only easy way to reliably indent text in such a way that it will appear indented on the mobile interface. If you're aware, mobile Wikia can be quite brutal in how much it drastically overrides and simplifies wiki markup, removing underlining, styles, colon indentation and other formatting options. Since a majority of Wikia readers use mobile, it makes no sense to write an article that uses context-sensitive indentation if it completely disappears in the mobile version.
Regardless, it looks really ugly with the bullets, and it doesn't make sense to uglify the pages just so they'll be indented properly on mobile devices. I've been meaning to create some templates and CSS styles for Heart-to-Hearts so we can improve the formatting on both mobile and desktop browsers. I'll try to work on that sometime soon, but in the meantime let's stick to the format we've been using, i.e. without bullets.
Well, mobile Wikia has tied our hands in many ways by so limiting our styling options. So until you come up with those workaround templates that display satisfactorily on mobile, I'll still prioritize legibility in my edits. I mean, a lot of gamers use their cell phones instead of computers when they want help during gameplay, as a cell phone is more portable than a computer or even a laptop. I know that when I did my massive guided re-playthrough of Wild Arms 3, I wasn't glued to my laptop, but to my cell phone to read guides.
By the way, I do have some experience with template development. One option that is complicated to do raw but fairly practical to do in a template, is to write nesting HTML tables. Over at Turtlepedia, I adapted wikipedia:Template:Clade to w:c:turtlepedia:Template:Clade, which uses tables (among things) to embed and indent cladogram nodes. See w:c:turtlepedia:Category:Mammals for a massive example of it in use. That template still doesn't adapt well to mobile because the mobile interface completely erases the lines that help a reader navigate a cladogram. However, the indentation itself still does work even on mobile, so that is something to consider when writing a mobile-ready template.
Hey, great job on the Japanese names; just a heads up:
Typically, we don't put translations in bold. The ones we do are because they are either official translations Monolith Soft has posted or we have redirects to the pages left over from before localizations were discovered. Any unofficial self-translations should be italicized.
Ahh, good to know (about the bolding). And my Japanese isn't fluent (which means a reviewing edits would be appreciated!), but I can read kana and some kanji, and that helps me navigate certain data tables, using multiple references (and Google Translate and Wiktionary together as a rough pointer) to help me find matches to the English versions. Of course, most matches are easy, and many Japanese Xenoblade terms are English-in-katakana anyway.
Thank you for your correction to Evil Rhangrot. Readings from kanji is probably my weakest Japanese skill. Some of these readings were raw Google Translate output rōmaji. I'll appreciate all the help and reviewing edits I can get.
Yeah, Google Translate sometimes does that for kanji strings that means different things when pronounced differently. I tend to use Jisho.org or (if I feel ambitious) a purely Japanese dictionary site like dictionary.goo.ne.jp for kanji pronunciation lookup, since they do return all possible results and which pronunciation means what.
Hi Gilgameshkun. I answer to your question is the edit summary. Indeed, Alex is not an antagonist by definition since (grossly) not amongst the "main" characters, that is why we have not added "protagonist" to NPCs.